.jpg)
How much has Borneo-sation damaged relations between federal and Sabah?
There was a time when civil servants, especially teachers from the peninsula, were being transferred to Sabah in droves. I can understand (the reason) for the Malay leadership (increasing the number of Malays in Sabah).
PBS were then using slogans which were quite frightening – such as the parochial “Sabah for Sabahan”. That works for them, but it was not good for us, who are more nationalistic.
Then, there were leaders who were visiting the Philippines regularly to spread anti-federalism ideologies there.
We tried sending Sabahans to the peninsula for exposure. They refused to go for fear of what they have heard of fellow Malaysians over there. Today, many Sabahans work blue-collar jobs in the peninsula. They are treated like second-class citizens because of the lack of education and employment opportunities.
Does the resurgence of talks on cessation and MA63 make people patriotic or fearful?
I am concerned as it is not doing us any good. I attribute this to state leaders. We are the ones who are fanning all these anti-peninsula sentiments. When Sabah politicians get positions in the federal government, they just keep quiet.
They are useless. They cannot convince their federal leaders to do the right thing.
We spoke a lot about Mahathir. What did Datuk Seri Najib Razak do for Sabah when he was prime minister?
Check out the first and second terms of Najib’s cabinet. There were three Sabahans in the first term and six in the second – all holding important positions, including Datuk Seri Anifah Aman as foreign minister. When I was in the federal cabinet, there were only two or three Sabahans.
During this time, they were buddies with Najib. Why did they not convince Najib to meet the state’s rights (under MA63)?
(Datuk Seri Mohd) Shafie Apdal was Najib’s buddy, from when they were youth leaders. The two men were very close. Shafie was also Najib’s deputy in the Defence Ministry.
Have they talked to these people about giving back what is rightly owned by Sabah?
But the reluctance of the peninsula to give back Sabah rights is very strong.
If I am the prime minister and you are a Sabahan in my cabinet, and all you do is talk about projects, do you think I will have respect for you? Do you think I will initiate (the transfer) of Sabah’s rights if you keep asking for projects?
These people never pursued state rights – they only pursue projects and self-enrichment. Sabahans should blame their own leaders who are now asking for more allocation.
They never asked for the 20% oil or revenue. When they are out of the federal circle, they start stirring these issues all over again.
But have you brought up Sabah issues?
I never bring up state rights, but I do bring up race and religion. These are the fundamentals. I was not about “how much Sabah should be getting”. I also fought for higher allocation.
Perhaps it is federal that does not want to allow Sabah to be self-sufficient?
Did federal impose any constraints on Sabah to be self-sufficient? The cabotage policy was probably one issue that was fought for by all Sabah ministers – state and federal. (But) we failed.
The Petroleum Development Act on getting enough revenue (is among the) things we should continue fighting for. Now that they are out of the government, these leaders are (once again) fighting for it.
Look at Jeffrey Kitingan. All his life, he fought against illegal immigrants, but when he became part of the federal government, he kept quiet when the home minister offered the IMM13 to undocumented Filipinos. It is the road to giving away citizenship.
How do we end political patronage?
Certain politicians think that everything is their property, including the people’s votes. I am going to correct or put a stop to all this. Yes, it is going to be a challenge. I am building up young individuals who are not tainted and who will lead with integrity.
If you go to any leader’s office, it is likely that the staff would be from his area because his agenda is to stay in power, and he can do that by just making his constituents happy.
You put an end to the rotation system, but by doing so, you helped “create” Musa Aman, allowing him to succeed you.
There is no denial. I confess! (laughs). This is one of the reasons I have kept my mouth shut for 13 years! But I did it with good intentions. Musa was the right person compared to my other peers at the time.
I told Mahathir, Musa is a self-made man. He is the only one who is a businessman. And we needed people like him, who knew how to conserve and manage resources.
I felt guilty. But on the other hand, I slept well because I meant well, although I misjudged badly.
So, was he the reason BN lost Sabah in the 14th general election?
It was “anything but Umno” everywhere and “anything but Musa” here in Sabah. Just like in 1985, (there was) “anything but Berjaya”. Nothing racial or religious. But Harris had hurt the feelings of the Tambunan people.
He also ordered the streetlights in Sandakan turned off, resulting in the anger of Sabahans. So, everything that the Berjaya government did for the people from before, Sabahans did not care (for it).
Are you open to working with other parties?
Yes, but it must be on our terms. We can go our own way so long as we understand that we must stop all the wastage and the abuses.
Even with Musa, although he is sitting out the election?
I don’t think Musa will ever come back. Even if he does, I don’t think I will join him. I will not let him be my leader. If he wants to be the leader, I will tell my people to leave him.
Musa was cocky and challenged the governor – calling for a press conference (to say) he had a simple majority, when he did not (on July 29).
What about Shafie?
I would be happy to work with him – only that he needs to change. If he is willing to do good for the state, I am open (to it). I will not work with parties that go against the federal government.
We are a nation. I can’t have a state that openly challenges federal. I know my own limitations. There are many areas that the federal government can assist us in, including state rights. Without the whole nation coming on board, everything will remain a pipe dream. We must be realistic. – The Vibes, September 24, 2020
